tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post8831213656009204990..comments2024-03-28T13:18:10.107+00:00Comments on Aviation of Japan 日本の航空史: Gloster's 'Zero'Straggler 脱走兵http://www.blogger.com/profile/10129611267271999294noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-6280513397856168522020-10-08T14:55:56.325+01:002020-10-08T14:55:56.325+01:00Yes, of course I understand that 'comrade harp...Yes, of course I understand that 'comrade harps', but the article suggests additional known factors as food for thought beyond the conventional wisdom which you have belaboured. Factors which you appear to have disregarded in favour of a rather patronising comment. Also worth reading Horikoshi's account as he makes little or no mention of the cross-cultivation you belabour and notwithstanding F-14s, MiG-29's and the modern internet of images and a plethora of pundits, the world was a very different place in 1937. Straggler 脱走兵https://www.blogger.com/profile/10129611267271999294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-67876115702566725822020-09-25T10:03:23.662+01:002020-09-25T10:03:23.662+01:00It's not unusual for aircraft designed around ...It's not unusual for aircraft designed around the same time to superficially appear similar. The designers are using similar technology, similar data, designing to similar requirements, using the same engineering equations and similar materials, so they are coming up with similar solutions (and constantly inspiring each other at the same time). It's a bit like convergent evolution, whereby unrelated species independently evolve similar features or traits to adapt to similar environmental challenges. <br /><br />Look at the generation of fighters designed in the late 1960s and early 1970s. The F-14, -15, -16, YF-17/FA-18 and the Mig-29 and Su-27 all to varying degrees share similar design features, like LERX, bubble canopies etc. (they don't look like Mirages).comrade harpshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16868307582875295395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-45624099494170296962020-05-09T13:19:14.475+01:002020-05-09T13:19:14.475+01:00Very interesting article Nick, especially with the...Very interesting article Nick, especially with the factual connections stitching it all together.<br />With lookalike designs in mind, the Polish PZL P.50 also comes to mind. It even has the nose guns, but the canopy was more traditional with poor visibility to the rear. It actually looks a bit like the fighter variants of the NA-16 series, which spawned the famous T-6, which of course is often abused as a Zero lookalike :)<br /><br />Ronnie Olsthoornhttp://www.facebook.com/aviationart.aeronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-33956006818947079622020-04-17T01:56:23.244+01:002020-04-17T01:56:23.244+01:00Thanks for your time & effort on this posting,...Thanks for your time & effort on this posting, Nick.Ken Glassnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-4855516354904774492020-04-13T18:10:11.184+01:002020-04-13T18:10:11.184+01:00What an interesting article! I've never heard ...What an interesting article! I've never heard of the Gloster plane, and the connections between Mitsubishi and Lord Sempill are certainly thought-provoking. Thanks for presenting this!<br /><br />Best wishes,<br />BrendanBrendan McGovernnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-26419016545734613892020-04-12T14:53:37.809+01:002020-04-12T14:53:37.809+01:00I happen to be in the middle of building the Plane...I happen to be in the middle of building the Planet kit, which I found on eBay for $20 (the original price was something like $60).<br />It is a very good kit of the first aircraft, which by the way was not armed. The resin is super hard with corrections needed to the wing join and cowling. It comes with two canopy's which you need to be careful with due to its hard plastic which is prone to shattering. It is a handsome design. <br />Tom Draper Tom Draperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03041947089030670461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-82710630267448209702020-04-12T14:10:48.422+01:002020-04-12T14:10:48.422+01:00Responses may not have given proper credit to your...Responses may not have given proper credit to your research, Nick, which is as meticulous and stimulating as ever. The spontaneousness of reactions, however, proves that the blog gave us food for thought.<br />I wasn't aware of the Gloster design in the first place - so it's interesting in itself - and the connections you uncovered seem to point at more influence on the Zero's development than any previous assumptions of its heritage.<br />My point was simply that the result counts and for that Mitsubishi deserves the praise of originality. You certainly didn't question this.<br />I'm not sure if this is comparable but the He 100 may have been a similar milestone in the design of the Hien.<br /><br />Keep up your highly appreciated research for us! Best, MichaelMichael Thurownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-86921980868345532312020-04-12T11:48:28.361+01:002020-04-12T11:48:28.361+01:00Yes, of course Alex. But I was writing about speci...Yes, of course Alex. But I was writing about specific connections, albeit speculatively, rather than technical espionage in general. A 'nothing to see here, move on" response which dismisses those connections is perhaps less brutal than "so what?" but equally discouraging to further exploration and endeavour. <br /><br />Thank you Mark for expressing your appreciation of the article. <br /><br />Regards<br />Nick Straggler 脱走兵https://www.blogger.com/profile/10129611267271999294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-39112585529894927132020-04-12T08:23:43.065+01:002020-04-12T08:23:43.065+01:00Technical espionage is a common occurrence. Why no...Technical espionage is a common occurrence. Why not? And no one will ever admit it.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14002858339960959516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-12076426829333248342020-04-11T21:20:56.336+01:002020-04-11T21:20:56.336+01:00Interesting! With the Mk I eyeball alone, the Glo...Interesting! With the Mk I eyeball alone, the Gloster seems far more likely than The Usual Suspects from Hughes and Northrop to have influenced Horikoshi's design, yet I've never noticed that or seen it mentioned. Since I never owned Putnam's "Gloster Aircraft Since..." or subscribed to English aircraft magazines, I hardly remember the design. The junction of the rear wing and fuselage, canopy setup, and the look of the cowling particularly resonate set next to the Zero; and more than the other airplanes usually mentioned, the wings, though stubbier, seem similar. I agree with Michael that it calls to mind Italian prewar designs as well, especially the empennage. An excellent article, especially with the information about Lord Sempill's connection. Put author Ben MacIntyre on to this, Nick, and together you two might dig it all out! Thanks for this one, Nick.<br /><br />Though they are mostly all gone now, here in America many WWII-era servicemen still held to the idea that the Zero was largely derivative of American design. Most of the ones I heard mention it (usually talking to them as a teenager or young man, when they realized I was interested in the subject) had no reason to doubt what they had heard, and it had become accepted gen. <br /><br />USN fighter pilot Bill Leonard's memories of the Zero, as one who flew Koga's captured Zero several times and certainly a person with a vested interest in knowing all about it (he finished with six kills in World War II), remain the most interesting for me. In essence they contradict the notion, though he noted the American origin of its propeller, some instruments, and other items. He also recorded how among all the USN and USAAF aircraft gathered for testing against the Zero, the Zero was the most mechanically reliable! Those of you with a copy of Jim Rearden's "Cracking the Zero Mystery" will find his accounts there of interest. <br /> Mark Smithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-35779527631231175542020-04-11T16:47:23.528+01:002020-04-11T16:47:23.528+01:00Thanks Michael. Agreed. But as I have blogged ther...Thanks Michael. Agreed. But as I have blogged there were more connections involved than just the outward shape and those connections did not apply to the Fiat and the Macchi. So I'd put it slightly more than a popular suggestion based only on superficial similarity. And I do wonder if Gloster had an eye to carrier operation for the F.5/34 given their pedigree. <br /><br />Regards<br />Nick Straggler 脱走兵https://www.blogger.com/profile/10129611267271999294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5748156690521830936.post-50389831210115676552020-04-11T16:03:17.400+01:002020-04-11T16:03:17.400+01:00Trying to find delineations from foreign designs i...Trying to find delineations from foreign designs is fascinating and often - as you mention - influenced by some chauvinism. For sure in the 30's aircraft engineers watched closely what others did. It was the time of a paradigm change in aviation technology. And they also often acquired potential rivals for comparison (or should I say blueprints to copy?). The Gloster F.5/34 could also be a forefather of the Fiat G.50 and Macchi C.200, couldn't it?<br /><br />I guess many of these propositions contain a grain of truth, but in the end there are so many more features than the outward shape that make a successful combat plane, e.g. the Zero's 20mm canon and above all its superb range and carrier suitability.<br /><br />To reiterate some other popular suggestions: The A5M was a copy of the Boeing P-26, and plans for the Reggiane Re 2000 were stolen from Seversky (P-35). Strange that the 'copies' were much more successful than the 'originals'.<br /><br />Cheers, MichaelMichael Thurownoreply@blogger.com